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14 February 2007 @ 08:39 pm
Won't somebody think of the chuyeeeldrennnnn!!!!  
"Watch what you say around the kids."
"Little pitchers! Shush!"
"If there are kids in the building, watch your mouth."

The world is not a sanitary place. The world is not a nice place. The world does not give one tiny tinker's damn if your child doesn't know what to do when presented with a curse word. The world cares precisely zero point zero repeating if your child does or does not know about sex, clothing, cults, Jesus, or to not eat the berries from the plant with waxy leaves.

Do you know who DOES care what your child knows? You. If you want your child to know how to handle things, then you need to educate your child, not shield them or deny them experiences. Whether you like it or not, your children are going to hear these things, learn these terrible things you don't want them to know. Just like you did, once upon a time. The only thing you're doing by sugar-coating and whitewashing the world is setting that kid up higher and higher for the inevitable, unavoidable fall.

Don't like this stark realism? Do go fuck yourself. Doesn't matter if you like it or not. It's going to happen anyway.
Current Mood: utterly disgusted
L Alouisadkins on February 15th, 2007 08:03 am (UTC)
Aye, the more people you throw in to the category the less they care, it seems.
Sugar-coating has it's uses, but this is *so* not one of them.
Ace Lightning: a'holeacelightning on February 16th, 2007 06:08 am (UTC)
the reason people don't want their children to hear profanity, or any references to sex, is because they don't want the children repeating the words in public, which brings embarrassment and shame upon the parents. whenever a child behaves in ways that society frowns upon, it's automatically the parents' fault for not controlling the child's behavior. (you don't want to know how much of that i had to deal with...)

Traveler Farlandertwfarlan on February 16th, 2007 12:56 pm (UTC)
Bah, bah, fucking bah. That's even less of a respectable reason as that's just selfish posturing.
Ace Lightning: bunnyserveracelightning on February 17th, 2007 06:01 am (UTC)
only partially. people have had their children taken away by well-meaning assholes because the kid talked about sex "inappropriately" - that proved that the parents were sexually molesting the child, didn't it? (i very nearly had that happen to me; fortunately, the psychiatrist who drew the wrong conclusion from my child's behavior wasn't able to make it stick.) no matter how much we hate it, we have to preserve the appearance that we're observing at least some of society's shibboleths, especially with regard to child-rearing.

craigers01 on February 21st, 2007 03:21 pm (UTC)
So let me get this straight, just so I understand.

you would be cool with someone saying something like "Cunt nugget cock licker" to Zoe?
Traveler Farlandertwfarlan on February 21st, 2007 03:27 pm (UTC)
Terrance and Phillip: "Shut up, you donkey-raping shiteater!"
Kyle: "Donkey-raping shiteater!"
Ike: "Dompey-wapin sheeteeder!"


Craiger, let me tell you a quick tale about my grandchildren and profanity. The eldest boy, David, used to have two words for his parents. For Kathryn, his word was "Mommy." For Luke, the father whom we hate? "Shit." He was carefully elongating the word, too, so it came out like, "Sheeeeeeiiiiiiiitttttt." See, that's the main lesson I want people to learn: profanity can at times be appropriate. ;)
craigers01 on February 21st, 2007 03:37 pm (UTC)
Now I agree with you there. I'm perfectly fine with a limited exposure. Hell, my parents gave me my first cuss word to use at 8. I was "allowed" to say shit. I could say it in any creative way I wanted to. Shit, bullshit, Shithead, shit-for-brains, whatever. Next year, They added piss. So I could be pissed off, have to go take a piss, etc so on and so forth.

What I have trouble with is the "nasty" stuff. STOP ROLLING YOUR EYES!

We all know that there is a time and place where being profane is customary, accepted and even expected. But you don't stand up in a funeral and yell "CUM DUMPSTER!", and I don't expect my kid to have to hear it.

Do I want kids to be sheltered? You're damned straight I do. I want them to hold onto their innocence for as long as possible. They'll have plenty of time to be jaded old adults later in their lives. They only have a few years to look at everything in the world with amazement, wonder, an open mind and an unfettered imagination.
Traveler Farlandertwfarlan on February 21st, 2007 04:04 pm (UTC)
(laughing) Aww. My old lewd, crude friend has grown up and cares about the children. ;)

Just teasing you. For the most part, I agree with you. Kids shouldn't have to carry the burdens of bullshit that adults deal with until the kids are mature enough to want to know what it's like. I don't mean pretending, playing house. I mean when they really and sincerely ask, then you tell them the facts if not the details.

As for screaming "cumdumpster" or the like in public or at ceremonies, I think there are appropriate times for things like that. A funeral, just walking down the street, or in pretty much any public place, these are inappropriate places for loud profanity. It's mostly just a question of respect. If my grandchildren want to express their frustration at home by saying, "Fuck!" then I don't care. If they say it out in public, they haven't learned the appropriate use of language nor the respect for others who may not want to hear it, and will have to be punished.
craigers01 on February 21st, 2007 06:02 pm (UTC)
hehe, and my old devil-may-care friend is now preaching respect and punishment.

The thing is, what you seem to advocate in your original post is the fact that kids are going to learn cussing from the world around them if they aren't taught it by their parents first.

Ultimatly, most parents don't want their kids to grow up. They don't want to have to teach them about crudeness, lewdness or sexual perversion. They don't want to teach them about death, loss, starvation, hate, jealousy or any number of bad things. It's not because they don't want their children to understand it and be prepared for it, but because they want their children to always be "daddies little girl" or "momma's boy". You want your children to grow up with only good things. That's not how it works in the world, but it's how you, as the parent, want it to work. You want your children to have more and better than you did when you were a child.

Unfortunatly, that means that the parent will frequently wait until it is too late before they start laying down the rules or educating the child. Those rules and that education become a reactive measure instead of a proactive one.
Traveler Farlandertwfarlan on February 21st, 2007 06:12 pm (UTC)
Heh. Criminal Justice and having to actually live in the world rather than my parents' house changed my perspective on punishment and correction. I still believe what I used to believe, though: people deserve respect until they prove that they're not worthy of it.

Parents can want their kids to stay kids all they like. That isn't going to make it so. Kids ARE going to learn these things, about sex, profanity, death, and so on. Now, there are two ways to deal with that fact.
1) Ignore it, bury your head in the sand, and watch your kids struggle when they learn it the hard way.
2) Approach it intelligently and teach the kids under more controlled circumstances. Forewarned is forearmed.
Ace Lightning: libertytorchacelightning on February 21st, 2007 11:21 pm (UTC)
i know you meant that for Trav, not me... but i'm a parent too. it's not so much that i wanted to protect my child from hearing those words; what bothered me was the reaction from other adults when my child used the words himself, especially when he was not yet capable of understanding why he shouldn't talk that way. and, yes, the school psychiatrist did have a social worker investigate me for potential sexual abuse, because she believed that knowledge of the words indicated experience. of course, all it indicated was that he'd discovered a foolproof way to get the adults all excited. (incidentally, that child is now 28 years old, and a clinical psychologist.)

craigers01 on February 22nd, 2007 03:13 pm (UTC)
I hear ya Ace. Honestly, I was exposed to that stuff very early as well. I remember being just a little little kid, and getting my first playboy. I remember drinking my first beer as a little kid. I remember watching movies with full frontal nudity and sex. I know I was only about 10 when I saw my first porno movie. I think I'm a MODERATLY well adjusted adult, but I also know I have some issues and that it's lead to the collapse of every relationship I've ever had with a woman. I wish I had been sheltered a little longer, until I could have more readily handled the material.
Ace Lightning: lighthouseacelightning on February 22nd, 2007 10:22 pm (UTC)
i raised my son somewhat the way my parents raised me, although i was unquestionably more broad-minded than they were (probably as a result of the way they raised me). i was allowed to read just about anything i could get my hands on - and, to me as a child, any passages describing "romance", and even semi-explicit sex, were boring, so i skipped over them and just read the adventure parts. when the adults around me were drinking alcohol, i was allowed to taste it - and, to me as a child, it tasted so nasty that i didn't want to drink any more of it. i treated my son the same way, with the addition of the fact that my indoor life is "clothing-optional". as i said, i did have a problem until he understood why he shouldn't behave certain ways in certain circumstances. but i don't think it gave him any difficulties with relationships. *shrug*